Other than quick ooc notes in the game move to give the GM character actions, all the ooc chat should be kept in the boards or in the comment section at the bottom of the game moves.
Some additional background information, if you have any questions about the setting, situation or characters, let post here or send me a PM.
The Town of Ettermoor
Located well within the Vatril border, Ettermoor is the largest settlement near the marsh which gives the town its name. The town itself supports several thousand people and serves as the trade hub for the surrounding villages. The Etter Moor (the marshlands south of the town) has few permanent inhabitants, but is a good source for herbs, some exotic hunting (alligator anyone?), and peat mining. The marshes are home to several unfriendly creatures. Trolls, lizardfolk, and a few species of carnivourous plant have been reported.
The moor is also believed to be the home to the nature goddess Pelara. Her followers have a strong presence in Ettermoor, but due to the localized nature of the religion it doesn't have much influence in the kingdom. Most believers in Pelara are polytheistic, believing in many nature deities.
Despite the name, Ettermoor has nothing to do with two-headed giants.
The Battle of Ettermoor Hill
In the early summer an Anaheer army snuck into Vatril territory and encountered a Vatril army massing near the town of Ettermoor. The only oddity in the conflict could perhaps be the utter failure of both armies to notice the other until they were quite close (and an oddity that occured after the battle, but that can be discussed later). Neither army expected the other to be there. The Vatril dug in at their camp on a hill several miles North of Ettermoor. The Anaheer charged their forces forward, trying to catch the Vatril before they could dig in properly. Both armies were of similar size, the Anaheer had more cavalry, while the Vatril had more infantry and archers. Both sides had several mages to support them and someone brought a pack of trolls, who they worked for quickly becoming irrelevant after the battle began. Sometime during the battle, the Anaheer mage managed to light Ettermoor Hill on fire with their magic, but the Vatril mages also managed to blast holes in the Anaheer formations. The exact details of the battle are still muddled and the outcome... well that you will have to figure out on your own.
Religions
From the regimented Servants of Light to the loosely associated Spirits of Nature, there are many kinds of religions and a slew of supposed deities. While there have been supposed miracles attributed to the gods, there is no clear proof of their existance and neither the Anaheer or the Vatril mandate a particular religion. In recent history (within the last 100 years) the nobility in Anaheer have begun to have their children anoited by the Servants of the Light.
I won't be fleshing out the religions of the land too much right now. There are plenty of religions in the world, mimicing real world religions and classic fantasy deities. However, there is no clear proof as to the existance of any god. Some priests may use magic and claim that it comes from their god, but the effects are such that a talented wizard might be able to do similar. If you wish to include a religion, let me know and we can work out details. Some religions will likely come up in game, but we'll handle those when we get to them and I'll provide any common knowledge you would have.
The elves and dwarves don't bother much with human affairs and neither has taken much interest in the war between the Anaheer and the Vatril. However, there are always exceptions. There are dwarven metalsmiths working on both sides of the conflict. After all, war is good for business. There are also rumors of dwarven exiles who have defied their clans and now fight in the war. Rumors claim there are some fighting on either side.
Within the last few years, an elven tribe has allied itself with the Vatril, claiming that the Anaheer are "vile, unnatural demon-worshipers." Upon hearing of this, a sect of the Servants of the Light declared all elves to be "tree worshiping heathens, lower than the dirt they hold sacred."
Orc tribes have readily worked for both sides as mercenaries.
Halflings and gnomes haven't gotten involved because they don't exist in this world.
I keep getting asked about differences between the Anaheer and the Vatril, so I've finally made a map of the world (at least the part with the Anaheer and Vatril). It is ugly, simple, and incomplete, so I won't be posting it right now. However, I do have more details on the world and what separates the Anaheer and the Vatril.
The Kingdom of the Anaheer
The Anaheer Kingdom is located to the north and is mostly rolling plains. The Anaheer also hold large stretches of coastline and several islands. In the center of the Anaheer lands is the Great Forest a deep a mysterious wood. The lands of the Anaheer are perfect for horses, and the armies include more cavalry than the Vatril. The Anaheer have a traditional monarchy. The royal family (the Anaheer) grant lands and powers to their feudal vassals in exchange for their support. Vatril invaders must cross large stretches of open land, ruined by years of warfare, to reach Anaheer cities, fighting all the way against Anaheer raiders.
The Vatril Republic
The lands of the Vatril are a motley lot, from the Ettermoor swamp to the mountainous High Peaks and the many deep forests. It is also not a true republic as House Vatril holds absolute power over all laws. The other nobility may meet to debate law and consider policies for their lands, it is House Vatril that has the final say. The northern borders of Vatril are guarded in the west by the Ettermoor, in the center by the Castle Peaks, and in the east by the Frost Cap mountains. Between each of these are large forests, which are the most frequent passage used by Anaheer invaders.
I want more clarification on the being dead part of this game. :)
My understanding is that we aren't zombies or anything of the like. We're just people that were resurrected, but without the pesky heartbeat. Is this a correct assumption?
Will we still be capable of the full gambit of emotions? (grief, love, anger, etc.)
Or, will we be ascended to some sort of higher place, where emotions aren't with us any longer? OR...was I completely incorrect and the idea of 'zombies' should stay in my head?
Submitted by Thrakazog on Tue, 04/27/2010 - 15:56.
Yes, exactly. Define "dead" please. Are there emotions? If I cry, will tears come? Can I still get it up? Am I as fast and strong as when I was "alive"? What's been lost/gained?
Your assumption is fairly correct. You're not quite zombies, but kind of similar. You'll still be able to think and will have emotions, but you're quite clearly dead. Whether you can hide that, or if you even want to, is something for in game.
Your body still functions, sort of. You will no longer heal, you no longer produce blood or tears (or other substances). The crying reflex still works, but once you run out of tears, there won’t be any more. You are still as fast and strong as you were before you died, provided you haven’t sustained any injuries which would slow you down, like a broken leg. Whether you can get it up depends on injuries sustained and how much blood remaining you have left. You will be tougher than a regular person, not because your body is more durable, but rather because blood loss and organ damage are irrelevant to someone who no longer produces blood or uses their organs. You will still have all of your senses, but this includes the sense of pain. A sword through the chest is rather painful, and if it never heals…
Will you rot? Do you need food? Will your senses stay as keen and your mind as sharp as time progresses? Is there a way to fix your body? These things you will have to figure out in game. You will also need to figure out if they can be changed or not.
You can't tell from this distance. No clear markings, possibly some light armor, so either scout, mage, or civilian. It will be obvious that she used magic and she was on the other side of the battlefield, by the Vatril position. I'll let you make whatever assumptions you want.
I'm realizing that having introductions right before someone else joins the group probably isn't the best idea. We may need to rearrange some things to keep things clear. Right now, troll happens.
Not sure if you follow the scheduling thread, Geech. So I wanted to post here that I'll be away for a week or so on vacation.
IF I can get access, I'll try to keep up. Please feel free to NPC Cali, by having her go back to the tent for a weapon or some such, if I hold things up. I'll sure try not to.
Submitted by Thrakazog on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 10:04.
ooc: Just some thoughts, take from them what you will - but I'm writing them with good intentions and a well meaning spirit. I feel that this move has not allowed input as it should from all of the players. My additions were merely edited around, and not used as if they were fresh input that happened at the time. We also have another character that's voice has not been heard, and it's not like a great deal of time has passed (this move was initiated some time on the 16th). Harrold...could have also done any number of things and would have reached Lonna first (if my read is correct) or affected the scene.
By writing so far into the scene without input from all of the characters, it has invalidated the possibility of his character having an action that could effect the early part of the scene. (in my oppinion) Of course, he could add his action, and it could be edited around to accommodate everything that has happened thus far. BUT... As a writer (if he feels similarly as I do) that does not make me feel like an actionable part of the scene. Instead it feels more as though the squeaky wheel that you have to pause to allow for before you get on with what you could finish what you started.
I think the intention of the GM, by giving this vision, was to keep a significant character rift from happening so early in the game. But I feel that because some are so invested in the (awesome) scene that is already there, that they're maybe not looking at the addition as if it had truly happened when it did. And instead are treating it like an afterthought to write around while still accommodating the original scene.
My feelings aren't hurt, the scene as is remains a good read (great read). I just feel that my character is at most an afterthought, and that there is more importance being put into preserving the scene as it stands - than there is of making sure that all of the players/characters are being allowed a contributing part of the story. SDTroll, might feel very different about the scene unfolding without Harrold, so I'm only speaking for myself here. But I needed to share, because I don't feel that collaborative writing works well unless people actively communicate (both the good and the bad).
With all of that said, this is still a salvageable scene, and I get that. And I'll work with it as I can. Although, I do feel very strongly that we give SDTroll an opportunity to weigh in. Assuming he does so w/i a reasonable time, which interpretation varies from GM to GM. Going forward though, it would mean a lot to me if scenes that involved several characters, were written by all of the players, instead of by a couple while the others tried to fit in what they could around the scene that was already determined.
China (not stomping, just sayin)
I'm taking this to the forum becuase it feels right, and since that's pretty much the driving force in my life since I became manified...
FWIW - If you want to dump everything from when the troll falls asleep forward, I'm seriously fine.
Submitted by Torchwood on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 10:54.
Thrakazog wrote:
ooc: Just some thoughts, take from them what you will - but I'm writing them with good intentions and a well meaning spirit. I feel that this move has not allowed input as it should from all of the players. My additions were merely edited around, and not used as if they were fresh input that happened at the time. We also have another character that's voice has not been heard, and it's not like a great deal of time has passed (this move was initiated some time on the 16th). Harrold...could have also done any number of things and would have reached Lonna first (if my read is correct) or affected the scene.
By writing so far into the scene without input from all of the characters, it has invalidated the possibility of his character having an action that could effect the early part of the scene. (in my oppinion) Of course, he could add his action, and it could be edited around to accommodate everything that has happened thus far. BUT... As a writer (if he feels similarly as I do) that does not make me feel like an actionable part of the scene. Instead it feels more as though the squeaky wheel that you have to pause to allow for before you get on with what you could finish what you started.
I think the intention of the GM, by giving this vision, was to keep a significant character rift from happening so early in the game. But I feel that because some are so invested in the (awesome) scene that is already there, that they're maybe not looking at the addition as if it had truly happened when it did. And instead are treating it like an afterthought to write around while still accommodating the original scene.
My feelings aren't hurt, the scene as is remains a good read (great read). I just feel that my character is at most an afterthought, and that there is more importance being put into preserving the scene as it stands - than there is of making sure that all of the players/characters are being allowed a contributing part of the story. SDTroll, might feel very different about the scene unfolding without Harrold, so I'm only speaking for myself here. But I needed to share, because I don't feel that collaborative writing works well unless people actively communicate (both the good and the bad).
With all of that said, this is still a salvageable scene, and I get that. And I'll work with it as I can. Although, I do feel very strongly that we give SDTroll an opportunity to weigh in. Assuming he does so w/i a reasonable time, which interpretation varies from GM to GM. Going forward though, it would mean a lot to me if scenes that involved several characters, were written by all of the players, instead of by a couple while the others tried to fit in what they could around the scene that was already determined.
China (not stomping, just sayin)
I'm taking this to the forum becuase it feels right, and since that's pretty much the driving force in my life since I became manified...
FWIW - If you want to dump everything from when the troll falls asleep forward, I'm seriously fine.
Agreed... I was surprised to see it in the turn itself.
China's comment should have been posted here, possibly with a reminder in the game thread to look here. OOC discussions don't belong in the game thread. That being said, China has brought up an important point. There have been 30 revisions to the game thread since it opened 2 days ago. Of those 30, I posted 1, and China posted 2, SDTroll hasn't posted anything yet. I asked for a minimum of 2 to 3 posts per week. It is great that some of you can post everyday, but we have to let the others have a chance to provide some input in these major events. Allowing a day or two for others to jump in at key points would be appreciated. I should have stepped in and requested a pause at the beginning of the thread, but I didn't. We're always learning. I'll try to smooth these things out in the future.
The thread has been progressing well and I enjoyed what it was doing, except that it was ignoring 2 players and their potential actions. It is a disadvantage to this medium, but sometimes we have to sit back and wait for others.
Submitted by Torchwood on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 11:25.
Geech wrote:
China's comment should have been posted here, possibly with a reminder in the game thread to look here. OOC discussions don't belong in the game thread. That being said, China has brought up an important point. There have been 30 revisions to the game thread since it opened 2 days ago. Of those 30, I posted 1, and China posted 2, SDTroll hasn't posted anything yet. I asked for a minimum of 2 to 3 posts per week. It is great that some of you can post everyday, but we have to let the others have a chance to provide some input in these major events. Allowing a day or two for others to jump in at key points would be appreciated. I should have stepped in and requested a pause at the beginning of the thread, but I didn't. We're always learning. I'll try to smooth these things out in the future.
The thread has been progressing well and I enjoyed what it was doing, except that it was ignoring 2 players and their potential actions. It is a disadvantage to this medium, but sometimes we have to sit back and wait for others.
Absolutely... I'll me making sure to throttle all my posts in all my games from here on out in an effort to adhere to this standard.
Submitted by Thrakazog on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 11:35.
I'd like to add, I thought we were doing a great job keeping the game moving in the midst of China's vacation and SD's limiting medical situation. Bad assumption on my part. Bad Thrak. No biscuit.
I'm just reacting to a situation here. If you're being sarcastic when you say you'll strangle your posts because of my comments, make that clearer. Tone doesn't come across well here.
I wasn't aware of SD's problems. We'll work around that.
I may be overreacting, but having one PC attack another is one of those major situations where I'd like to get as many players involved as possible. I'm going to delete some of the material to allow for the inclusion of Cali. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. I think it will turn out to be a better story if we do it this way.
1. Apologies for not posting in the forum. I rarely if ever post in the forum, a habit I should get into. Things in a game move, kindly disappear, while the forum stays there in all it's beauty or ugly.
2. I can appreciate that all of those participating were enjoying the scene. It was a very good scene, and a nice story was unfolding. Dramatic and all kinds of great stuff. Allow me to play victim for a moment and apologize for wanting to be a part of it.
3. I'm sorry. At some point during this, my feelings have become injured and I'm at a loss as to how to reply. I'll hop into the move and reply where I can and try not to dampen things too much more for the rest of you. (in this game or others) My intention was to communicate that I was feeling left out, and saw it happening to others as well. It wasn't to hurt your feelings, make some sort of power play or ruin your fun. Only to be included in it.
Submitted by Torchwood on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 13:29.
Geech wrote:
I'm just reacting to a situation here. If you're being sarcastic when you say you'll strangle your posts because of my comments, make that clearer. Tone doesn't come across well here.
I wasn't aware of SD's problems. We'll work around that.
I may be overreacting, but having one PC attack another is one of those major situations where I'd like to get as many players involved as possible. I'm going to delete some of the material to allow for the inclusion of Cali. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. I think it will turn out to be a better story if we do it this way.
Throttle, as in to slow down... not strangle. I'd have said strangle if that's what I meant :)
1. A place for everything and everything in its place. *shrug* It's not a big deal. We can have this conversation redacted if need be.
2-3. This a major scene and will likely define how all the characters treat each other. I feel that it is best if we can get as many, if not all, players involved. All the confusion right now sucks, but I believe we will have a better story for it.
4. It is not my intent to stifle posting. I merely wish to give everyone the chance to be involved. I apologize all around for the confusion and annoyance this is causing. I should have jumped on this a lot sooner. I didn't. My bad. So, let's just work through this and have fun.
Submitted by Thrakazog on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 13:36.
I don't want to sound like an old man here, but this isn't a big deal - or it certainly shouldn't be. This is a common issue that has occurred in many games that I've been involved with over the past decade or so doing this. It's a simple problem simply remedied. Not only that, but an overabundance of enthusiasm is a problem I wish all of my games had.
Submitted by Viper9090 on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 14:23.
Wow, this has gone into melt down here, it's taken me a while to catch up, but I get the problem here, and agree that no-one should be left out. I do have some suggestions though, it's up to everyone else if they seems like a good ideas.
First we could use Tagging, ie, thinking ahead in the post as to who you want to reply to a situation so that the scenes flow more fluidly and allow space for other characters to chime in.
We also may need to split the screens up into smaller chunks, including only a few people in each. That each chunk can react at their own speed and allow everyone to have a say.
This division was inevitable. Not everyone here has the time or inclination to check and write for the simm every day. However, we have to be careful not to slow the game down too much. I know from experience that a happy medium is rare but needed, and that sometimes characters of players who cannot join in as much will begin to get marginalised. It is inevitable.
I do like the cast of this simm though, we have some good original characters and it would be a shame for them to disappear.
We could also try the buddy player system, where a player gives another player the ability to speak for their character if they cannot log in regally. The Buddy would not be able to make big decisions for the character or effect them in any major way, but would be allowed to add small points of text, like a character moving, reacting or speaking during discussions. It is not a perfect system and requires that some players are able to distinguish their characters properly, but it would stop others being marginalised quite so much.
(PS sorry that I may ignore some characters search but in the current scene Teion is focused on saving the mage, so anything else to him is not really important, added to the shock of waking up looking like crispy ribs. I'll try and add more reaction from now on.)
My original intention was for the group to stick together. I am realizing that isn't necessarily the best way to run a game in this medium. I'm used to running F2F D&D games, so I hope you'll forgive a few blunders.
Unfortunately, sometimes life interrupts games. We'll work around this.
Submitted by Thrakazog on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 16:27.
Okay, I'm usually pretty laid back about this stuff - happy fun time games, remember? - so when I say that this is really starting to piss me off, take it with that in mind.
Harold was still staring at the captain, in shock. He knew some people were prone to violance, but to see a man so willing to kill a woman for no reason was incomprehensable to the gentle healer.
No, it's not the spelling, but I think it would be a great idea if everyone would go back and read the background material for the campaign. I think some very basic but very important contextual information is being ignored. To wit:
The Anaheer/Vatril war has been ongoing and hot for several years. This is not a new conflict where individual opinions may not yet be formed. Unless you live in a cave, everybody on both sides knows about the war.
We're standing on the battlefield of a MAJOR engagement that's mere hours old. Said battlefield rests in Vatril territory not very far at all from a MAJOR Vatril population center and, more to the point, a place where the Vatril have recently decided to concentrate their forces.
Thus, it follows, the chances that a Vatril after-action force, or reinforcements, or at least a well-armed patrol will arrive very soon are incredibly high.
Walther's been in the military since he was old enough to join. He's no greenhorn officer given a rank because he happens to be the son of a Duke (next step down from the King). He's earned his rank by leading men into battle many times successfully and well, with honor. He's an experienced and charismatic combat veteran leader of men known for being tactically astute and crafty. He is not some bloodthirsty loony fanatic.
And yes, he despises the Vatril, who he's spent his adult life fighting in this war. They've killed a lot of good men he's known. It makes sense to me.
Given all that, how exactly is it incomprehensible that he'd see an enemy battle mage, quite possibly the most dangerous troop you can face, wearing the enemy's uniform, and then, realizing he has neither the men nor the resources to take an enemy mage prisoner, try to then kill her? That shocks anyone? That makes him a "brute"? Really?
He's killing the enemy. Get over that she's a woman and alone. She's a focking BATTLEMAGE, defined as a mage powerful enough that the army decided she was powerful enough and loyal enough (Anyone know any army putting disloyal mages into their formations? Anyone?) to be put on the battlefield as a weapon. As far as the group knows, the only thing that's kept her from killing us already during the battle is timing and circumstance.
Oh, I'm sure Lonna is a very nice person and poor misunderstood soul who was drafted against her will into the Vatril army and forced to wear the uniform, and she'd never think of turning on the nice Anaheer who were vapid and naive enough to let her rest and gather her strength and not take advantage of her while she was weakened. Why, that would be rude. *rolls eyes*
Overreaction? Maybe, I admit. Does it matter in the long run? Probably not. But I don't like that Walther is being cast as something he is decidedly not for doing what is, by all accounting, the right thing to do given the circumstances.
What he said. I'm in complete agreement with Thrak on this. I knew what I was getting into when I decided to play a Vatril and Walther's actions are no less than I expected.
--
Imagination is the seed of intelligence. Nourish it and watch it grow.
You actually don't know anything about Harold, except that he is dressed as a peasant and has healing magic. There are some very good reasons why he would have that reaction. I'll leave the specifics to SDTroll to explain as he sees fit.
That being said, every point you brought up is completely correct. There is no reason for Walther not to try killing Lonna. Few if any of the characters has come to grips with the fact that they are now dead and everything has changed for them.
The ethical implications of killing someone in a war is something to be discussed later. :)
I do apologize, ever so much. ...but your passion makes me smile. (We're just such a fussy playgroup.)
*hugs*
I will say, Thrak, that putting in those bullet points does help me to put things into perspective. I can see that you've spent some time getting into your character's head. And I appreciate you sharing.
I can also relate to how difficult it can be at times to NOT react to internals. That's why I'm not a huge fan of them. I'll give your points some serious thoughts as we continue forward. Cali, is about as unaffiliated as the circumstances allow in the conflict. It does stand to reason, though, that with such a long standing battle, I should put more thought into which side of the line she's on.
Thanks for sharing so that we can see your perspective and hopefully take it into consideration in future posts.
Submitted by Viper9090 on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 18:02.
I'd like to respond to Thrak's comments with some of my own:
I agree that Walther would be as he, and would be angry, slightly confused and willing to try to kill the the Vatril mage on sight as a matter of principle, that is just what the character is.
However, I am not fond of the idea of people having a go at other players for playing their characters reactions the way they want to play them. It is up to them how they want to react to both waking from death and the appearance of a enemy mage. They are not being thick or not understanding. For example, Teion called him brute because that is what he thinks of all soldiers, be they Lords or dog infantry, just how most men of Science (or magic) would, not with respect but with contempt not because of who they are but because if what they do. He's not being specific, it's just how he thinks, not criticizing the character out of spite or anything.
You cannot have a go at us for the way we make our characters react to Walther. You say he is a charismatic and experienced combat leader, which is fine, but only one of our number is an actual solider, the rest of out number are mages, healers and foreigners, who may not see him that way. No offence, but you have been playing him as a bloodthirsty fanatic, who orders a troll to kill a survivor they hardly know then running her through the moment he gets near her. He may have a noble back story, but that is not how he has reacted so far, and our characters would act the way they did in response, and you shouldn't be surprised or confused by this reaction, it's foreseeable (Not that what he did is a bad thing, it did make the story very intresting).
Another example is Harold, he is a healer who only helps people, and has no intention of killing anyone, so his reaction which you used as an example is perfectly fine for his character, it fits. Just because the scenario has a bloody back story doesn't mean that the characters would all react in the same way. Just because they are all reacting differently doesn't mean they should be berated.
What needs to seen is that we all have our own style of playing, and some of us play from different angles. For example, my style is elaborate plans, the seeds of which are planted early on whilst the the treads play along until it is time to unveil the scene. For example, in this scene Teion does not intend to let her roam around, he intends to take her prisoner and secure her with powerful wards making it almost impossible for her to use magic, then he would study here and try to dispose of her when he was finished (his plan anyway). It is no different from Walthers idea to kill her but is more subtle and requires time to play, so is not immediately apparent in the story. This all would be reveled in time, the story needs to play out to allow us to show our characters true potential, we are still in the initial stages, so we need to let it happen, regardless of whether or not we think things are going well.
I'll finishes this by saying that I think the story so far is going really well, I like the characters and their reactions, and I do like the character of Walther, I think he has allot of depth. However, he is not the lead character, all the charecters are, and they should not be criticized for the way we play them
I'm done here, if anyone wants to talk please send me a PM. Other then that lets keep going, I'm eager to see what happens next.
Submitted by Thrakazog on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 18:15.
Don't take my comments personally, Viper. They weren't intended to be. I took Teion for a worldly, experienced, broadened individual. If he instead just puts all soldiers into the "brute" box regardless of context or evidence, that's my bad for making a bad assumption. Note, however, you can't expect people to react based on what you intend to do down the road. My characters only react as they are built to react, and Walther's done nothing bloodthirsty nor fanatical, as I tried to explain by providing the context.
Submitted by Viper9090 on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 19:14.
Don't worry, i didn't take it personally. You have the misfortune of me being a Uni Law student ( 'EVIL'), meaning I will always argue a point just to be clear and let others know my points on a matter. I don't mean to sound condescending or aggressive or anything, as I said, Law students are taught to be forthright, hence the lengthy riposte.
However, I didn't mean your character should predict what my character, or any other will do. It really should be that when I write I tend to leave clues, make it so that the reader will wonder why he has done a thing and what his ulterior motives could possibly be, rather then he is a nice guy, which Teion is definitely not. You are right though, the context does effect how the scene sounds, and as I have a (Very) big back story for Teion (Bigger then my last assignment) I tend to be a bit too subtle, which I can see being hard to understand for the reader without that context.
One thing I do want to add is that although you are correct in stating the two countries have been tearing each other apart for a generation, they still contain people who react differently to people getting stabbed right in front of them. As an example Teion (sorry to keep using him but I don't want to speak for other characters) is a mage who has spent as much time studying magic and spying for the crown as he has doing anything else, and although he has been around allot he still considers allot of the acts done in battles to be brutish, as a spy he considers a good poisoning to be far more seemly.
What I'm getting at is that a good character needs flaws, and big ones at that. Flaws so big that you could drive a three story house through and have space to spare. Flawless characters make crappy heroes and story pieces as they are compleat unrelatable, bland and will never get anything wrong or act like a person. Flaws are also useful as they add depth and history to a character as they will do things and be wrong when they do them, but still do them because they are flawed. It also means that characters will fight, fall out and think the other is wrong, even of they are not.
That is why Teion thought of Walther as a Brute, he is very likely wrong, but he is flawed to think that way. Walther is flawed, from my view, because he is conditioned by his years in battle to kill and not ask questions, to take no prisoners and live in the firm belief that killing them is right regardless of the circumstances. It is what a solider does, and is a flaw, and will make him seem bloodthirsty even in such a weird situation, even if the others don't really understand. I've tried to play to that (or did before the re-write). If I've got that wrong I apologies, but that is how I think and what I thought
A word of caution, don't assume you know other people's character. You never know what secrets they may hide.
Walther's actions are well justified. In battle, mages are considered to be the equivalent of powerful and versatile artillery. Capturing an enemy mage is quite difficult and dangerous. Considering the battered condition he is in and the lack of reinforcements, killing an enemy mage (and Lonna is clearly a Vatril mage) is a reasonable course of action. The troll was a useful tool that he didn't know how to use properly. Once the troll was eliminated, a quick kill before she could recover was a good course of action. Walther and Teion have fundamentally different perspectives on how to handle things. That isn't a bad thing.
I'm defending a player for trying to kill another PC....this certainly is an interesting game.
Submitted by Viper9090 on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 20:07.
I agree Geech, and Walther stabbing the Vatril mage was both interesting and dramatically pleasing as it was an action that spoke a thousand words. It was the way to go, and I stopped my char. doing something about the impending skewering because of that. I actually like Walther, he is a good character and has depth, unlike some of the 2D cardboard cutout characters I worked with on previous Sims. (They were really dull games, I made my char into a psycho just to make them interesting)
I also think a conflict between Teion and Walther will be a good thing, in game terms, as they are almost polar opposites, the warrior Nobel and the morally ambiguous mage, so a (nonviolent) conflict could lead to avenues we wouldn't normally use in game.
Anyway, enough from me, I'll let someone else speak for once
Viper, you mentioned Sims. What are those exactly? Is it pretty much what we do here?
I've seen several advertisements for sims...and have been curious about them. I kind of envisioned them as a more graphically detailed and possibly moving text based game. :)
Submitted by Viper9090 on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 08:10.
I hope this is not sarcasm, I hate computer sarcasm.
In simple terms, the difference between a sim, or simm. and this game is the play style. The game we play here is an RPG, it has rules, dice rolls and there is a GM (or Game god ) Controlling everything from afar and helping move the game along.
In a sim there are no rules, there is only the writing done by the Players, there is no GM, only a player who helps lead the story by their actions and their characters ideas. The idea is that the players can play it the way they want, advancing the story at their pace and showing what is going on around them in their own writing. I prefer that style of play, but it's not massively dissimilar in what you write, only how you write.
Nope, definitely not sarcasm. Genuine curiosity is all.
Yes, that's much clearer. Thank you. Totally not what I had envisioned. I kept envisioning little avatars running around as you added text to the scene. More like a computer game than a play by text method.
The description that you used is what I've always kind of labeled in my head as 'Free Form'. Which may be one and the same as a 'Simm'.
One last question...how is a Simm usually played? In a forum? Over email? On a wiki or website like this, that is geared towards the world?
Submitted by Viper9090 on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 09:57.
(Grr, have had to rewrite this post, not fun!)
Glad it's not sarcasm
You are right in saying that Simms are sort of free form games. That is kind of the idea of them, they are not a game where you follow the rules and do everything in a certain way, more like a life simulation where you pretend to live another life, doing what you want with very little restrictions. It is liberating as you need to play a character in both good and bad ways, and sometimes make your character fail at something for the good of the Simm and the story.
There are a few simms who use avatars and in game worlds tp play with graphics and everything, but they are more like MMORPG's then true RP Games, and text base is far more free then a graphical medium.
Addressing you're last question, a simm can be played in almost any medium of communication. I was member of a very large group of star trek theme Simms known as Bravo Fleet. Whilst there i saw simms played in almost every way you could think of. There were Play by text, Play by forum, Play by wiki, Play by email, there was even a favored method of playing on a SMS system, which is very similar to this site. It is where a folder is uploaded to a hosted site which holds everything you need to play, like character rosters with Bio sheets, specs of the ship (in this case), ship history, a posting area, an internal PM system and many other features to make a good simming experience. You can see an example of an SMS simm here ( http://searcher.kda-simms.net/SMS/index.php ), one that I ran recently, although it is shutting down soon due to the Host going out of business.
Nope. No more questions. ...but thank you ever so much for the education.
The way things are changing with technology and how people play games online, is of interest to me. Sometimes I get questions about comparing our method of game play to 'this' or 'that' style, and I simply am not sure how to respond. ...this has been helpful.
I would like to take a moment and apologize to the players and GM in LAD. It has not been missed by me that my recent outburst has all but squashed the posting and quite likely much of the enthusiasm for the game. It is rare to find a game with a chemistry that can enjoy such a fast paced posting environment. For me to know this, and allow myself to make an issue where there did not need to be an issue was rude.
The fact that I'm an administrator of this site makes my behavior far worse. Whether I intend to or not, and no matter how much care I try to frame my emails with, they will inevitably carry more weight than a regular member (Thank you Torchy for reminding me of this). ...which might have influenced the GM's decision in a direction that he didn't really want to go.
So, unless there is a GM driven reason that we needed to cut back everything that happened, I would like to suggest reverting back to revision number 29. It might be a solution that could help renew some of the deflated spirits that I'm feeling. Especially since Harrold's addition was one that could easily accommodate both moves and be pasted in easily. This is ONLY a suggestion from the person that is responsible for making an issue where there did not need to be an issue, and trying to undo the damage that was done.
It's the GM's job to suggest rewrites, not the players and I was out of line. With Thrak's wonderful editing job in revision 29, it accommodated my post and the GM's request that I put the vision in a certain spot in the move.
If this is more trouble than it's worth, then I understand and will leave you with my apologies alone that I interrupted the flow and enjoyment of such an enjoyable game. ...and my promise that I'll try most heartily to behave myself in the future.
Apology accepted. This has become quite a big mess and I just want it done with. I'm fine continuing as we have it now, and I'm fine rolling it back to revision 29. The main reason I cut the post back was because I felt that Cali's inclusion would significantly alter the course of the thread.
Rather than just yanking everyone back the other way, I'll leave it up to all of you. Which would you prefer? Should we continue on as we are now, or revert to a previous revision? Even if both courses are acceptable, I expect you have a preference for one over the other. So, let me know your thoughts on the matter and then we'll see what will work best.
Finally, I too apologize for my poor handling of this situation. I just want this game to go smoothly and be enjoyable for everyone.
Comments
New Background Info
Some additional background information, if you have any questions about the setting, situation or characters, let post here or send me a PM.
The Town of Ettermoor
Located well within the Vatril border, Ettermoor is the largest settlement near the marsh which gives the town its name. The town itself supports several thousand people and serves as the trade hub for the surrounding villages. The Etter Moor (the marshlands south of the town) has few permanent inhabitants, but is a good source for herbs, some exotic hunting (alligator anyone?), and peat mining. The marshes are home to several unfriendly creatures. Trolls, lizardfolk, and a few species of carnivourous plant have been reported.
The moor is also believed to be the home to the nature goddess Pelara. Her followers have a strong presence in Ettermoor, but due to the localized nature of the religion it doesn't have much influence in the kingdom. Most believers in Pelara are polytheistic, believing in many nature deities.
Despite the name, Ettermoor has nothing to do with two-headed giants.
The Battle of Ettermoor Hill
In the early summer an Anaheer army snuck into Vatril territory and encountered a Vatril army massing near the town of Ettermoor. The only oddity in the conflict could perhaps be the utter failure of both armies to notice the other until they were quite close (and an oddity that occured after the battle, but that can be discussed later). Neither army expected the other to be there. The Vatril dug in at their camp on a hill several miles North of Ettermoor. The Anaheer charged their forces forward, trying to catch the Vatril before they could dig in properly. Both armies were of similar size, the Anaheer had more cavalry, while the Vatril had more infantry and archers. Both sides had several mages to support them and someone brought a pack of trolls, who they worked for quickly becoming irrelevant after the battle began. Sometime during the battle, the Anaheer mage managed to light Ettermoor Hill on fire with their magic, but the Vatril mages also managed to blast holes in the Anaheer formations. The exact details of the battle are still muddled and the outcome... well that you will have to figure out on your own.
Religions
From the regimented Servants of Light to the loosely associated Spirits of Nature, there are many kinds of religions and a slew of supposed deities. While there have been supposed miracles attributed to the gods, there is no clear proof of their existance and neither the Anaheer or the Vatril mandate a particular religion. In recent history (within the last 100 years) the nobility in Anaheer have begun to have their children anoited by the Servants of the Light.
I won't be fleshing out the religions of the land too much right now. There are plenty of religions in the world, mimicing real world religions and classic fantasy deities. However, there is no clear proof as to the existance of any god. Some priests may use magic and claim that it comes from their god, but the effects are such that a talented wizard might be able to do similar. If you wish to include a religion, let me know and we can work out details. Some religions will likely come up in game, but we'll handle those when we get to them and I'll provide any common knowledge you would have.
Now in stompy size!
Races The elves and dwarves
Races
The elves and dwarves don't bother much with human affairs and neither has taken much interest in the war between the Anaheer and the Vatril. However, there are always exceptions. There are dwarven metalsmiths working on both sides of the conflict. After all, war is good for business. There are also rumors of dwarven exiles who have defied their clans and now fight in the war. Rumors claim there are some fighting on either side.
Within the last few years, an elven tribe has allied itself with the Vatril, claiming that the Anaheer are "vile, unnatural demon-worshipers." Upon hearing of this, a sect of the Servants of the Light declared all elves to be "tree worshiping heathens, lower than the dirt they hold sacred."
Orc tribes have readily worked for both sides as mercenaries.
Halflings and gnomes haven't gotten involved because they don't exist in this world.
Now in stompy size!
Terrain
I keep getting asked about differences between the Anaheer and the Vatril, so I've finally made a map of the world (at least the part with the Anaheer and Vatril). It is ugly, simple, and incomplete, so I won't be posting it right now. However, I do have more details on the world and what separates the Anaheer and the Vatril.
The Kingdom of the Anaheer
The Anaheer Kingdom is located to the north and is mostly rolling plains. The Anaheer also hold large stretches of coastline and several islands. In the center of the Anaheer lands is the Great Forest a deep a mysterious wood. The lands of the Anaheer are perfect for horses, and the armies include more cavalry than the Vatril. The Anaheer have a traditional monarchy. The royal family (the Anaheer) grant lands and powers to their feudal vassals in exchange for their support. Vatril invaders must cross large stretches of open land, ruined by years of warfare, to reach Anaheer cities, fighting all the way against Anaheer raiders.
The Vatril Republic
The lands of the Vatril are a motley lot, from the Ettermoor swamp to the mountainous High Peaks and the many deep forests. It is also not a true republic as House Vatril holds absolute power over all laws. The other nobility may meet to debate law and consider policies for their lands, it is House Vatril that has the final say. The northern borders of Vatril are guarded in the west by the Ettermoor, in the center by the Castle Peaks, and in the east by the Frost Cap mountains. Between each of these are large forests, which are the most frequent passage used by Anaheer invaders.
Now in stompy size!
Being Dead...?
I want more clarification on the being dead part of this game. :)
My understanding is that we aren't zombies or anything of the like. We're just people that were resurrected, but without the pesky heartbeat. Is this a correct assumption?
Will we still be capable of the full gambit of emotions? (grief, love, anger, etc.)
Or, will we be ascended to some sort of higher place, where emotions aren't with us any longer? OR...was I completely incorrect and the idea of 'zombies' should stay in my head?
Yes, exactly. Define "dead"
Yes, exactly. Define "dead" please. Are there emotions? If I cry, will tears come? Can I still get it up? Am I as fast and strong as when I was "alive"? What's been lost/gained?
Your assumption is fairly
Your assumption is fairly correct. You're not quite zombies, but kind of similar. You'll still be able to think and will have emotions, but you're quite clearly dead. Whether you can hide that, or if you even want to, is something for in game.
Your body still functions, sort of. You will no longer heal, you no longer produce blood or tears (or other substances). The crying reflex still works, but once you run out of tears, there won’t be any more. You are still as fast and strong as you were before you died, provided you haven’t sustained any injuries which would slow you down, like a broken leg. Whether you can get it up depends on injuries sustained and how much blood remaining you have left. You will be tougher than a regular person, not because your body is more durable, but rather because blood loss and organ damage are irrelevant to someone who no longer produces blood or uses their organs. You will still have all of your senses, but this includes the sense of pain. A sword through the chest is rather painful, and if it never heals…
Will you rot? Do you need food? Will your senses stay as keen and your mind as sharp as time progresses? Is there a way to fix your body? These things you will have to figure out in game. You will also need to figure out if they can be changed or not.
Now in stompy size!
Oh.... Thank you for the
Oh....
Thank you for the additional information. Creepy creepy....
Can we determine our own death? Or is that something that needs to be left up to you?
...and if it's something that you would like to assign, would you entertain requests for the method of mortum? :)
You don't get to choose your
You don't get to choose your own death, but I will accept suggestions.
Now in stompy size!
Banner Graphic
I now feel like the third character over in the banner graphic, is pointing at this game. *grin*
Yo, Geechasaurus - love the
Yo, Geechasaurus - love the new avatar, BTW - is the woman being chased by the troll Vatril or Anaheer?
Unclear
You can't tell from this distance. No clear markings, possibly some light armor, so either scout, mage, or civilian. It will be obvious that she used magic and she was on the other side of the battlefield, by the Vatril position. I'll let you make whatever assumptions you want.
I'm realizing that having introductions right before someone else joins the group probably isn't the best idea. We may need to rearrange some things to keep things clear. Right now, troll happens.
Now in stompy size!
Away
Not sure if you follow the scheduling thread, Geech. So I wanted to post here that I'll be away for a week or so on vacation.
IF I can get access, I'll try to keep up. Please feel free to NPC Cali, by having her go back to the tent for a weapon or some such, if I hold things up. I'll sure try not to.
I've seen the post. Thank you
I've seen the post. Thank you for letting me know.
I'll probably have Cali just sit back and watch quietly. I can think of one situation which may require her involvement. I'll PM you about it.
Enjoy the vacation!
Now in stompy size!
ooc: Just some thoughts,
I'm taking this to the forum becuase it feels right, and since that's pretty much the driving force in my life since I became manified...
FWIW - If you want to dump everything from when the troll falls asleep forward, I'm seriously fine.
I was kinda having fun with
I was kinda having fun with the scene as it stood but I could rewrite if necessary.
--
Imagination is the seed of intelligence. Nourish it and watch it grow.
I feel you, KL.
I feel you, KL.
Heatwave wrote:I was kinda
Ditto...
Thrakazog wrote: ooc: Just
By writing so far into the scene without input from all of the characters, it has invalidated the possibility of his character having an action that could effect the early part of the scene. (in my oppinion) Of course, he could add his action, and it could be edited around to accommodate everything that has happened thus far. BUT... As a writer (if he feels similarly as I do) that does not make me feel like an actionable part of the scene. Instead it feels more as though the squeaky wheel that you have to pause to allow for before you get on with what you could finish what you started.
I think the intention of the GM, by giving this vision, was to keep a significant character rift from happening so early in the game. But I feel that because some are so invested in the (awesome) scene that is already there, that they're maybe not looking at the addition as if it had truly happened when it did. And instead are treating it like an afterthought to write around while still accommodating the original scene.
My feelings aren't hurt, the scene as is remains a good read (great read). I just feel that my character is at most an afterthought, and that there is more importance being put into preserving the scene as it stands - than there is of making sure that all of the players/characters are being allowed a contributing part of the story. SDTroll, might feel very different about the scene unfolding without Harrold, so I'm only speaking for myself here. But I needed to share, because I don't feel that collaborative writing works well unless people actively communicate (both the good and the bad).
With all of that said, this is still a salvageable scene, and I get that. And I'll work with it as I can. Although, I do feel very strongly that we give SDTroll an opportunity to weigh in. Assuming he does so w/i a reasonable time, which interpretation varies from GM to GM. Going forward though, it would mean a lot to me if scenes that involved several characters, were written by all of the players, instead of by a couple while the others tried to fit in what they could around the scene that was already determined.
China (not stomping, just sayin)
I'm taking this to the forum becuase it feels right, and since that's pretty much the driving force in my life since I became manified...
FWIW - If you want to dump everything from when the troll falls asleep forward, I'm seriously fine.
Agreed... I was surprised to see it in the turn itself.
China's comment should have
China's comment should have been posted here, possibly with a reminder in the game thread to look here. OOC discussions don't belong in the game thread. That being said, China has brought up an important point. There have been 30 revisions to the game thread since it opened 2 days ago. Of those 30, I posted 1, and China posted 2, SDTroll hasn't posted anything yet. I asked for a minimum of 2 to 3 posts per week. It is great that some of you can post everyday, but we have to let the others have a chance to provide some input in these major events. Allowing a day or two for others to jump in at key points would be appreciated. I should have stepped in and requested a pause at the beginning of the thread, but I didn't. We're always learning. I'll try to smooth these things out in the future.
The thread has been progressing well and I enjoyed what it was doing, except that it was ignoring 2 players and their potential actions. It is a disadvantage to this medium, but sometimes we have to sit back and wait for others.
Now in stompy size!
So what's the plan, Geech?
So what's the plan, Geech?
Geech wrote:China's comment
The thread has been progressing well and I enjoyed what it was doing, except that it was ignoring 2 players and their potential actions. It is a disadvantage to this medium, but sometimes we have to sit back and wait for others.
Absolutely... I'll me making sure to throttle all my posts in all my games from here on out in an effort to adhere to this standard.
Torchwood wrote:Absolutely...
*sound of a fire extinguisher*
I'd like to add, I thought we
I'd like to add, I thought we were doing a great job keeping the game moving in the midst of China's vacation and SD's limiting medical situation. Bad assumption on my part. Bad Thrak. No biscuit.
I'm just reacting to a
I'm just reacting to a situation here. If you're being sarcastic when you say you'll strangle your posts because of my comments, make that clearer. Tone doesn't come across well here.
I wasn't aware of SD's problems. We'll work around that.
I may be overreacting, but having one PC attack another is one of those major situations where I'd like to get as many players involved as possible. I'm going to delete some of the material to allow for the inclusion of Cali. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. I think it will turn out to be a better story if we do it this way.
Now in stompy size!
Comments
1. Apologies for not posting in the forum. I rarely if ever post in the forum, a habit I should get into. Things in a game move, kindly disappear, while the forum stays there in all it's beauty or ugly.
2. I can appreciate that all of those participating were enjoying the scene. It was a very good scene, and a nice story was unfolding. Dramatic and all kinds of great stuff. Allow me to play victim for a moment and apologize for wanting to be a part of it.
3. I'm sorry. At some point during this, my feelings have become injured and I'm at a loss as to how to reply. I'll hop into the move and reply where I can and try not to dampen things too much more for the rest of you. (in this game or others) My intention was to communicate that I was feeling left out, and saw it happening to others as well. It wasn't to hurt your feelings, make some sort of power play or ruin your fun. Only to be included in it.
Geech wrote:I'm just reacting
I wasn't aware of SD's problems. We'll work around that.
I may be overreacting, but having one PC attack another is one of those major situations where I'd like to get as many players involved as possible. I'm going to delete some of the material to allow for the inclusion of Cali. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. I think it will turn out to be a better story if we do it this way.
Throttle, as in to slow down... not strangle. I'd have said strangle if that's what I meant :)
1. A place for everything and
1. A place for everything and everything in its place. *shrug* It's not a big deal.
We can have this conversation redacted if need be.
2-3. This a major scene and will likely define how all the characters treat each other. I feel that it is best if we can get as many, if not all, players involved. All the confusion right now sucks, but I believe we will have a better story for it.
4. It is not my intent to stifle posting. I merely wish to give everyone the chance to be involved. I apologize all around for the confusion and annoyance this is causing. I should have jumped on this a lot sooner. I didn't. My bad. So, let's just work through this and have fun.
Now in stompy size!
I don't want to sound like an
I don't want to sound like an old man here, but this isn't a big deal - or it certainly shouldn't be. This is a common issue that has occurred in many games that I've been involved with over the past decade or so doing this. It's a simple problem simply remedied. Not only that, but an overabundance of enthusiasm is a problem I wish all of my games had.
Wow, this has gone into melt
Wow, this has gone into melt down here, it's taken me a while to catch up, but I get the problem here, and agree that no-one should be left out. I do have some suggestions though, it's up to everyone else if they seems like a good ideas.
First we could use Tagging, ie, thinking ahead in the post as to who you want to reply to a situation so that the scenes flow more fluidly and allow space for other characters to chime in.
We also may need to split the screens up into smaller chunks, including only a few people in each. That each chunk can react at their own speed and allow everyone to have a say.
This division was inevitable. Not everyone here has the time or inclination to check and write for the simm every day. However, we have to be careful not to slow the game down too much. I know from experience that a happy medium is rare but needed, and that sometimes characters of players who cannot join in as much will begin to get marginalised. It is inevitable.
I do like the cast of this simm though, we have some good original characters and it would be a shame for them to disappear.
We could also try the buddy player system, where a player gives another player the ability to speak for their character if they cannot log in regally. The Buddy would not be able to make big decisions for the character or effect them in any major way, but would be allowed to add small points of text, like a character moving, reacting or speaking during discussions. It is not a perfect system and requires that some players are able to distinguish their characters properly, but it would stop others being marginalised quite so much.
(PS sorry that I may ignore some characters search but in the current scene Teion is focused on saving the mage, so anything else to him is not really important, added to the shock of waking up looking like crispy ribs. I'll try and add more reaction from now on.)
You don't have to be mad here, but it helps...
Tagging and some forethought
Tagging and some forethought will help.
My original intention was for the group to stick together. I am realizing that isn't necessarily the best way to run a game in this medium. I'm used to running F2F D&D games, so I hope you'll forgive a few blunders.
Unfortunately, sometimes life interrupts games.
We'll work around this.
Now in stompy size!
Okay, I'm usually pretty laid
Okay, I'm usually pretty laid back about this stuff - happy fun time games, remember? - so when I say that this is really starting to piss me off, take it with that in mind.
No, it's not the spelling, but I think it would be a great idea if everyone would go back and read the background material for the campaign. I think some very basic but very important contextual information is being ignored. To wit:
Given all that, how exactly is it incomprehensible that he'd see an enemy battle mage, quite possibly the most dangerous troop you can face, wearing the enemy's uniform, and then, realizing he has neither the men nor the resources to take an enemy mage prisoner, try to then kill her? That shocks anyone? That makes him a "brute"? Really?
He's killing the enemy. Get over that she's a woman and alone. She's a focking BATTLEMAGE, defined as a mage powerful enough that the army decided she was powerful enough and loyal enough (Anyone know any army putting disloyal mages into their formations? Anyone?) to be put on the battlefield as a weapon. As far as the group knows, the only thing that's kept her from killing us already during the battle is timing and circumstance.
Oh, I'm sure Lonna is a very nice person and poor misunderstood soul who was drafted against her will into the Vatril army and forced to wear the uniform, and she'd never think of turning on the nice Anaheer who were vapid and naive enough to let her rest and gather her strength and not take advantage of her while she was weakened. Why, that would be rude. *rolls eyes*
Overreaction? Maybe, I admit. Does it matter in the long run? Probably not. But I don't like that Walther is being cast as something he is decidedly not for doing what is, by all accounting, the right thing to do given the circumstances.
Okay, I'm usually pretty laid
*duplicate post removed*
What he said. I'm in complete
What he said. I'm in complete agreement with Thrak on this. I knew what I was getting into when I decided to play a Vatril and Walther's actions are no less than I expected.
--
Imagination is the seed of intelligence. Nourish it and watch it grow.
Everyone has their reasons
You actually don't know anything about Harold, except that he is dressed as a peasant and has healing magic. There are some very good reasons why he would have that reaction. I'll leave the specifics to SDTroll to explain as he sees fit.
That being said, every point you brought up is completely correct. There is no reason for Walther not to try killing Lonna. Few if any of the characters has come to grips with the fact that they are now dead and everything has changed for them.
The ethical implications of killing someone in a war is something to be discussed later. :)
Now in stompy size!
*grin*
I do apologize, ever so much. ...but your passion makes me smile. (We're just such a fussy playgroup.)
*hugs*
I will say, Thrak, that putting in those bullet points does help me to put things into perspective. I can see that you've spent some time getting into your character's head. And I appreciate you sharing.
I can also relate to how difficult it can be at times to NOT react to internals. That's why I'm not a huge fan of them. I'll give your points some serious thoughts as we continue forward. Cali, is about as unaffiliated as the circumstances allow in the conflict. It does stand to reason, though, that with such a long standing battle, I should put more thought into which side of the line she's on.
Thanks for sharing so that we can see your perspective and hopefully take it into consideration in future posts.
I'd like to respond to
I'd like to respond to Thrak's comments with some of my own:
I agree that Walther would be as he, and would be angry, slightly confused and willing to try to kill the the Vatril mage on sight as a matter of principle, that is just what the character is.
However, I am not fond of the idea of people having a go at other players for playing their characters reactions the way they want to play them. It is up to them how they want to react to both waking from death and the appearance of a enemy mage. They are not being thick or not understanding. For example, Teion called him brute because that is what he thinks of all soldiers, be they Lords or dog infantry, just how most men of Science (or magic) would, not with respect but with contempt not because of who they are but because if what they do. He's not being specific, it's just how he thinks, not criticizing the character out of spite or anything.
You cannot have a go at us for the way we make our characters react to Walther. You say he is a charismatic and experienced combat leader, which is fine, but only one of our number is an actual solider, the rest of out number are mages, healers and foreigners, who may not see him that way. No offence, but you have been playing him as a bloodthirsty fanatic, who orders a troll to kill a survivor they hardly know then running her through the moment he gets near her. He may have a noble back story, but that is not how he has reacted so far, and our characters would act the way they did in response, and you shouldn't be surprised or confused by this reaction, it's foreseeable (Not that what he did is a bad thing, it did make the story very intresting).
Another example is Harold, he is a healer who only helps people, and has no intention of killing anyone, so his reaction which you used as an example is perfectly fine for his character, it fits. Just because the scenario has a bloody back story doesn't mean that the characters would all react in the same way. Just because they are all reacting differently doesn't mean they should be berated.
What needs to seen is that we all have our own style of playing, and some of us play from different angles. For example, my style is elaborate plans, the seeds of which are planted early on whilst the the treads play along until it is time to unveil the scene. For example, in this scene Teion does not intend to let her roam around, he intends to take her prisoner and secure her with powerful wards making it almost impossible for her to use magic, then he would study here and try to dispose of her when he was finished (his plan anyway). It is no different from Walthers idea to kill her but is more subtle and requires time to play, so is not immediately apparent in the story. This all would be reveled in time, the story needs to play out to allow us to show our characters true potential, we are still in the initial stages, so we need to let it happen, regardless of whether or not we think things are going well.
I'll finishes this by saying that I think the story so far is going really well, I like the characters and their reactions, and I do like the character of Walther, I think he has allot of depth. However, he is not the lead character, all the charecters are, and they should not be criticized for the way we play them
I'm done here, if anyone wants to talk please send me a PM. Other then that lets keep going, I'm eager to see what happens next.
You don't have to be mad here, but it helps...
Don't take my comments
Don't take my comments personally, Viper. They weren't intended to be. I took Teion for a worldly, experienced, broadened individual. If he instead just puts all soldiers into the "brute" box regardless of context or evidence, that's my bad for making a bad assumption. Note, however, you can't expect people to react based on what you intend to do down the road. My characters only react as they are built to react, and Walther's done nothing bloodthirsty nor fanatical, as I tried to explain by providing the context.
But, as Walther said, do as you will.
Don't worry, i didn't take it
Don't worry, i didn't take it personally. You have the misfortune of me being a Uni Law student ( 'EVIL'), meaning I will always argue a point just to be clear and let others know my points on a matter. I don't mean to sound condescending or aggressive or anything, as I said, Law students are taught to be forthright, hence the lengthy riposte.
However, I didn't mean your character should predict what my character, or any other will do. It really should be that when I write I tend to leave clues, make it so that the reader will wonder why he has done a thing and what his ulterior motives could possibly be, rather then he is a nice guy, which Teion is definitely not. You are right though, the context does effect how the scene sounds, and as I have a (Very) big back story for Teion (Bigger then my last assignment) I tend to be a bit too subtle, which I can see being hard to understand for the reader without that context.
One thing I do want to add is that although you are correct in stating the two countries have been tearing each other apart for a generation, they still contain people who react differently to people getting stabbed right in front of them. As an example Teion (sorry to keep using him but I don't want to speak for other characters) is a mage who has spent as much time studying magic and spying for the crown as he has doing anything else, and although he has been around allot he still considers allot of the acts done in battles to be brutish, as a spy he considers a good poisoning to be far more seemly.
What I'm getting at is that a good character needs flaws, and big ones at that. Flaws so big that you could drive a three story house through and have space to spare. Flawless characters make crappy heroes and story pieces as they are compleat unrelatable, bland and will never get anything wrong or act like a person. Flaws are also useful as they add depth and history to a character as they will do things and be wrong when they do them, but still do them because they are flawed. It also means that characters will fight, fall out and think the other is wrong, even of they are not.
That is why Teion thought of Walther as a Brute, he is very likely wrong, but he is flawed to think that way. Walther is flawed, from my view, because he is conditioned by his years in battle to kill and not ask questions, to take no prisoners and live in the firm belief that killing them is right regardless of the circumstances. It is what a solider does, and is a flaw, and will make him seem bloodthirsty even in such a weird situation, even if the others don't really understand. I've tried to play to that (or did before the re-write). If I've got that wrong I apologies, but that is how I think and what I thought
You don't have to be mad here, but it helps...
Justified
A word of caution, don't assume you know other people's character. You never know what secrets they may hide.
Walther's actions are well justified. In battle, mages are considered to be the equivalent of powerful and versatile artillery. Capturing an enemy mage is quite difficult and dangerous. Considering the battered condition he is in and the lack of reinforcements, killing an enemy mage (and Lonna is clearly a Vatril mage) is a reasonable course of action. The troll was a useful tool that he didn't know how to use properly. Once the troll was eliminated, a quick kill before she could recover was a good course of action. Walther and Teion have fundamentally different perspectives on how to handle things. That isn't a bad thing.
I'm defending a player for trying to kill another PC....this certainly is an interesting game.
Now in stompy size!
I agree Geech, and Walther
I agree Geech, and Walther stabbing the Vatril mage was both interesting and dramatically pleasing as it was an action that spoke a thousand words. It was the way to go, and I stopped my char. doing something about the impending skewering because of that. I actually like Walther, he is a good character and has depth, unlike some of the 2D cardboard cutout characters I worked with on previous Sims. (They were really dull games, I made my char into a psycho just to make them interesting)
I also think a conflict between Teion and Walther will be a good thing, in game terms, as they are almost polar opposites, the warrior Nobel and the morally ambiguous mage, so a (nonviolent) conflict could lead to avenues we wouldn't normally use in game.
Anyway, enough from me, I'll let someone else speak for once
You don't have to be mad here, but it helps...
Sims
I've seen several advertisements for sims...and have been curious about them. I kind of envisioned them as a more graphically detailed and possibly moving text based game. :)
I hope this is not sarcasm, I
I hope this is not sarcasm, I hate computer sarcasm.
In simple terms, the difference between a sim, or simm. and this game is the play style. The game we play here is an RPG, it has rules, dice rolls and there is a GM (or Game god
) Controlling everything from afar and helping move the game along.
In a sim there are no rules, there is only the writing done by the Players, there is no GM, only a player who helps lead the story by their actions and their characters ideas. The idea is that the players can play it the way they want, advancing the story at their pace and showing what is going on around them in their own writing. I prefer that style of play, but it's not massively dissimilar in what you write, only how you write.
Any clearer?
You don't have to be mad here, but it helps...
Nope, definitely not
Nope, definitely not sarcasm. Genuine curiosity is all.
Yes, that's much clearer. Thank you. Totally not what I had envisioned. I kept envisioning little avatars running around as you added text to the scene. More like a computer game than a play by text method.
The description that you used is what I've always kind of labeled in my head as 'Free Form'. Which may be one and the same as a 'Simm'.
One last question...how is a Simm usually played? In a forum? Over email? On a wiki or website like this, that is geared towards the world?
Thanks!
(Grr, have had to rewrite
(Grr, have had to rewrite this post, not fun!)
Glad it's not sarcasm
You are right in saying that Simms are sort of free form games. That is kind of the idea of them, they are not a game where you follow the rules and do everything in a certain way, more like a life simulation where you pretend to live another life, doing what you want with very little restrictions. It is liberating as you need to play a character in both good and bad ways, and sometimes make your character fail at something for the good of the Simm and the story.
There are a few simms who use avatars and in game worlds tp play with graphics and everything, but they are more like MMORPG's then true RP Games, and text base is far more free then a graphical medium.
Addressing you're last question, a simm can be played in almost any medium of communication. I was member of a very large group of star trek theme Simms known as Bravo Fleet. Whilst there i saw simms played in almost every way you could think of. There were Play by text, Play by forum, Play by wiki, Play by email, there was even a favored method of playing on a SMS system, which is very similar to this site. It is where a folder is uploaded to a hosted site which holds everything you need to play, like character rosters with Bio sheets, specs of the ship (in this case), ship history, a posting area, an internal PM system and many other features to make a good simming experience. You can see an example of an SMS simm here ( http://searcher.kda-simms.net/SMS/index.php ), one that I ran recently, although it is shutting down soon due to the Host going out of business.
Any more questions?
You don't have to be mad here, but it helps...
Questions
*grin*
Nope. No more questions. ...but thank you ever so much for the education.
The way things are changing with technology and how people play games online, is of interest to me. Sometimes I get questions about comparing our method of game play to 'this' or 'that' style, and I simply am not sure how to respond. ...this has been helpful.
Sure, anything to help.
Sure, anything to help.
You don't have to be mad here, but it helps...
Apology
I would like to take a moment and apologize to the players and GM in LAD. It has not been missed by me that my recent outburst has all but squashed the posting and quite likely much of the enthusiasm for the game. It is rare to find a game with a chemistry that can enjoy such a fast paced posting environment. For me to know this, and allow myself to make an issue where there did not need to be an issue was rude.
The fact that I'm an administrator of this site makes my behavior far worse. Whether I intend to or not, and no matter how much care I try to frame my emails with, they will inevitably carry more weight than a regular member (Thank you Torchy for reminding me of this). ...which might have influenced the GM's decision in a direction that he didn't really want to go.
So, unless there is a GM driven reason that we needed to cut back everything that happened, I would like to suggest reverting back to revision number 29. It might be a solution that could help renew some of the deflated spirits that I'm feeling. Especially since Harrold's addition was one that could easily accommodate both moves and be pasted in easily. This is ONLY a suggestion from the person that is responsible for making an issue where there did not need to be an issue, and trying to undo the damage that was done.
It's the GM's job to suggest rewrites, not the players and I was out of line. With Thrak's wonderful editing job in revision 29, it accommodated my post and the GM's request that I put the vision in a certain spot in the move.
If this is more trouble than it's worth, then I understand and will leave you with my apologies alone that I interrupted the flow and enjoyment of such an enjoyable game. ...and my promise that I'll try most heartily to behave myself in the future.
Apology Accepted
Apology accepted. This has become quite a big mess and I just want it done with. I'm fine continuing as we have it now, and I'm fine rolling it back to revision 29. The main reason I cut the post back was because I felt that Cali's inclusion would significantly alter the course of the thread.
Rather than just yanking everyone back the other way, I'll leave it up to all of you. Which would you prefer? Should we continue on as we are now, or revert to a previous revision? Even if both courses are acceptable, I expect you have a preference for one over the other. So, let me know your thoughts on the matter and then we'll see what will work best.
Finally, I too apologize for my poor handling of this situation. I just want this game to go smoothly and be enjoyable for everyone.
Now in stompy size!
I'm fine with whatever, but
I'm fine with whatever, but I'd wish to keep it as it is now, as it has allowed everyone a say.
I reality I just want to get on with the game, I put alot into this character and I'd like to see it keep going for now at least.
You don't have to be mad here, but it helps...
No more rollbacks, things are
No more rollbacks, things are going just fine right now.
Now in stompy size!